#2295 - Scott Payne
Scott Payne is a retired FBI Special Agent who spent 28 years in law enforcement investigating cases against drug trafficking organizations, human traffickers, outlaw motorcycle clubs, gangs, public corruption, and domestic terrorists. He is the co-author of the book "Code Name: Pale Horse: How I Went Undercover to Expose America’s Nazis" and the subject of the podcast "White Hot Hate: Agent Pale Horse," both created in collaboration with journalist Michelle Shephard. Visible by visiting visible.com/rogan and experience all-digital wireless with nothing to hide, with plans starting at $25/mo.Visit LifeLock.com/JOEROGAN to save up to 40% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
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Key Takeaways
Undercover work requires deep psychological understanding and adaptability.
This is crucial for building trust and gathering intel in criminal environments.
Law enforcement recruitment has been impacted by societal changes and defunding.
This highlights the challenges police departments face in maintaining effective undercover operations.
Intense training is necessary for successful undercover operations.
Understanding the rigorous preparation helps appreciate the risks involved in undercover work.
The importance of mentorship in the FBI's undercover program.
Mentorship fosters skill development and emotional support in high-stress roles.
Alcohol tolerance can impact the effectiveness of undercover operations.
Understanding this can help in strategizing better approaches for undercover agents.
Episode Timestamps
Insights from an Undercover FBI Agent's Life in Biker Gangs
- The speaker spent 25 years working undercover for the FBI in various criminal organizations.
- Their experiences highlight the complexities of infiltrating biker gangs and drug trafficking.
- The discussion touches on the challenges law enforcement faces in recruiting and maintaining undercover agents.
Undercover Operations: Insights from a Former FBI Agent
- Undercover work requires intense training and psychological resilience.
- Mentorship plays a crucial role in the development of undercover agents.
- Adrenaline-driven environments attract specific personality types to law enforcement.
Undercover Operations and Alcohol's Role in Law Enforcement
- Undercover operations often involve strategic approaches to infiltrate groups effectively.
- Alcohol consumption can complicate undercover work, affecting performance and decision-making.
- Personal experiences reveal the challenges faced by undercover agents in dangerous environments.
Undercover operations and relationships in criminal investigations
- Building relationships is crucial for successful undercover operations in criminal investigations.
- Undercover agents face challenges, including trust and the risk of being discovered.
- The complexity of criminal networks requires strategic planning and execution in operations.
Insights into Outlaw Motorcycle Clubs and Drug Trafficking
- Discussion on the violent culture within outlaw motorcycle clubs and their activities.
- A personal account of undercover operations against drug trafficking in Massachusetts.
- Reflecting on the surreal experiences during high-stress situations with law enforcement.
Undercover Operations and the Pressure of Intelligence Work
- Adrenaline plays a crucial role in undercover police operations and investigations.
- The complexities of maintaining operational security are highlighted during intense situations.
- Emotional challenges faced by undercover agents can affect personal relationships significantly.
Undercover Challenges and Personal Struggles in Law Enforcement
- The psychological toll of undercover work on law enforcement agents is profound.
- Building trust while betraying relationships creates moral dilemmas for undercover agents.
- The balance between professional duty and personal life can lead to significant stress.
Undercover Operations Insights and Personal Experiences Shared
- Discussion reveals the complexities of undercover law enforcement operations and personal challenges.
- Emphasis on the human connections and relationships formed during undercover work.
- Reminders of the mental health struggles faced by first responders and law enforcement.
Discussion on Child Exploitation and Human Trafficking Issues
- The segment details alarming child exploitation cases and their legal ramifications.
- Human trafficking networks and their operations are discussed with disturbing specifics.
- The role of law enforcement in tackling these issues is critically examined.
Exploring Accelerationist Ideologies and White Supremacy Tactics
- Accelerationism is linked to neo-Nazi ideologies and societal collapse beliefs.
- Groups like Adam Waffen promote guerrilla warfare and domestic terrorism tactics.
- Christian identity and Norse mythology are being misused within white supremacy movements.
Examining the Impact of White Supremacy in Contemporary Society
- The discussion highlights the real and pervasive nature of white supremacy today.
- Critics argue that labeling diverse beliefs as white supremacy dilutes real issues.
- The conversation addresses infiltration of extremist groups and their activities.
Dark Rituals and Extremism Explored in Hate Camp Experience
- Participants engaged in disturbing rituals involving animal sacrifice and drug use.
- The camp served as a breeding ground for white supremacist ideologies.
- A sense of belonging drove individuals to participate in extreme activities.
Discussion on Extremism and Undercover Operations in America
- The podcast explores infiltration tactics used against extremist groups in the U.S.
- Details of uncovered murder plots associated with far-right groups are discussed.
- The role of undercover agents in monitoring and thwarting violent actions is highlighted.
Undercover Law Enforcement Experiences Revealed in Candid Conversation
- The impact of undercover work on personal and family life is significant.
- Desensitization in law enforcement can lead to coping mechanisms like humor.
- The challenges of dealing with criminal elements often lead to bizarre stories.
People Mentioned
Not specified
Undercover FBI Agent
Unnamed FBI Agent
Former FBI Agent
Unnamed Speaker
Undercover Agent, Undercover Officer
Scott Town
Undercover agent
Joe Dogs
President of a motorcycle club
Scott Calloway
Undercover agent
Joe Pistone
Former undercover FBI agent
Tim Sylvia
Fighter
Unnamed undercover agent
Undercover law enforcement officer
Unnamed law enforcement officer
FBI agent, Child exploitation investigator
Patrick Matthews
National Guard member, infiltrated extremist groups
Unnamed participant
Participant in hate camp
David Lane
White Supremacist Figure
Ronaldo Nazaro
Base Leader
Places Mentioned
San Antonio
City
Boston, Massachusetts
City
Tijuana
City known for medical facilities.
Brockton
City
McAllen, Texas
City
Massachusetts
State
Bridgeport, Connecticut
City
Mcallen, Texas
City
Texas
U.S. State
San Marcos, Texas
Location of tactical firearms training.
Rome, Georgia
Location of extremist activities.
Books Mentioned
Siege
James Mason
Codenamed Pale Horse
Unknown
Notable Quotes
"Spent 25 years undercover working FBI clan, Nazi organizations, biker gangs."
Introduction to their experience in law enforcement.
"Defund police black eye hard recruit hard enough get people fill uniform slots."
Discussion on the challenges faced in modern policing.
"Intense two weeks days huge sleep deprivation going give away scenarios."
Discussing the challenges of undercover training.
"Always trying to stay four or five moves ahead."
Describing the strategic mindset required for undercover work.
"That's human nature like know caught fish big 10th person telling like 10 right fight pinkies."
Discussing the dynamics within biker gangs during undercover operations.