#1893 - Will Harris

Episode Timestamps

• 00:02:41

  Introduction to White Oak Pastures

  • Will Harris discusses his family's history with the farm and introduces the types of animals they raise.
• 00:09:05

  Grain-fed Cows are Unnaturally Obese

  • Will Harris explains how grain-fed cows are not natural and how they compare to his cows in terms of weight and lifespan.
• 00:12:20

  Changing the model of farming

  • The industrial commodity centralized model led to unintended consequences in animal welfare, which made the speaker change his farming model.
  • Good animal welfare means providing an environment for animals to express instinctive behavior, but the CAFO confinement model doesn't allow that.
  • The speaker changed the way he raised cattle 25 years ago, quitting feeding chicken litter and subtherapeutic antibiotics.
• 00:14:29

  Misapplication of technology in agriculture

  • Misapplication of technology makes agriculture destructive, with unintended and undesirable consequences.
  • The speaker's farm employs technology, but reductive science technology may not lend itself to living systems.
  • The speaker talks about the land side of the farm, highlighting the three most damaging things to soil: cultivation, chemical fertilizers, and pesticides.
• 00:28:33

  Roundup and glyphosate

  • Many people have Roundup in their blood (estimated at 80%)
  • Some people argue that glyphosate in small amounts is not a big deal, but this is not well understood
  • Glyphosate is not good for people, but the levels at which it becomes toxic are not well known
  • Roundup was invented in the 70s and used until the late 90s
  • Glyphosate is very effective, but practitioners are trying to move away from it due to the harm it causes
• 00:31:28

  Battling invasive plants naturally

  • Organic apple cider vinegar and soap are not very efficacious at killing an invasive plant called Tropical Soda Apple
  • Glyphosate is very effective, but its harmful effects have caused practitioners to seek natural alternatives
  • A professor at the University of Florida has brought in a beetle from Paraguay that eats only Tropical Soda Apple
  • Cows, sheep, and goats are effective at killing kudzu, an invasive plant similar to Tropical Soda Apple
  • Concerns about introducing an invasive beetle species that might migrate onto other foods and destroy other plants
• 00:36:56

  Scaling up regenerative farming

  • The challenge of scaling up regenerative farming to feed a large population living unnaturally
  • The argument that we shouldn't have 18 million people in one area
  • Most people in the regenerative space are not from an industrial farming background
  • Practitioners of regenerative farming still face resistance from their communities
  • The question of whether we need factory farming to meet the demands of a large population
• 00:40:09

  Farming Methods for Earth's Carrying Capacity

  • Debate about the best farming method for the Earth's carrying capacity
  • Industrial farming's use of misused technology
  • Comparison of industrialized and regenerative systems
  • Advantages and disadvantages of both systems
• 00:42:41

  Cost of Industrial versus Regenerative Farming

  • Inputs of industrial model to take cost out of production
  • Percentage of cost difference in regenerative model
  • Example of cost of production for grass-fed beef and poultry
  • Externalized costs of production
  • Effects on taxpayers and the environment
• 00:53:26

  Externalized expenses and the agricultural industry

  • Farmers receive a small portion of the consumer dollar
  • Big ag takes on the risks and provides services
  • Consumers buy products, not animals
  • Industrial agriculture is efficient but lacks resilience
• 01:01:14

  The Savory Institute and complex systems

  • Regenerative farming requires a shift from the industrial model
  • Living systems are complex and cannot be reduced to simple input/output
  • Industrial farming breaks the cycles of nature and produces less abundance
• 01:08:19

  The impact of chemical fertilizers on water quality

  • The neighbor's farm has used several hundred pounds of chemical fertilizers on corn.
  • The chemical fertilizers are a contributing factor to the dark and muddy runoff from the neighbor's farm.
  • The runoff also contains herbicide, insecticide, and fungicides.
  • There are no financial consequences for these substances entering the water.
• 01:09:54

  The impact of water runoff on Apalachicola Bay

  • The water from the neighbor's farm flows into Apalachicola Bay.
  • Apalachicola Bay was once famous for its oysters, but the area has banned oyster harvesting due to low numbers.
  • Oysters purify water, and their absence has negatively impacted the fishery.
  • The speaker's farm contributes clean water to the bay, while the neighbor's farm's runoff causes pollution.
• 01:11:37

  The impact of organic matter on water retention

  • The speaker's farm has achieved an organic matter level of 5% through animal impact.
  • The organic matter allows the farm to absorb more water than the neighbor's farm, which has only a 0.5% organic matter level.
  • The neighbor's farm is an example of industrial farming which results in decreased organic matter.
  • The speaker's farm has a generational view and has invested in the improvement of the land over a long period.
• 01:21:17

  Guardian Dogs Protect Poultry from Predators :

  • Guardian dogs (Great Pyrenees, Okbosh, Anatolian Shepherds) protect the poultry from mammal predators like coyotes, foxes, etc.
  • Because the predators are nocturnal, the dogs are trained to be nocturnal too.
  • However, during the daytime, the birds are susceptible to attacks from raptors.
  • Electric netting around the birds' area helped to keep the dogs in and reduced the likelihood of raptor attacks.
• 01:26:19

  Industrial System's Impact on the Environment :

  • The speaker believes that the industrial system's siloed, reductionist approach to science has negatively impacted complex cyclical systems.
  • The speaker believes that the industrial system is a recent development in human history.
  • The speaker describes how university education in animal nutrition and health focuses on separate disciplines and undermines the wholism of complex systems.
  • The speaker argues that running whole systems is not taught enough in universities.
• 01:36:38

  Industrialization and Centralization of Agriculture

  • Industrialization of agriculture damaged land, water, and environment
  • Centralization of agriculture impoverished rural America
  • Commoditization also negatively impacted agriculture
  • Alternative farming methods can re-enrich the land and local economy
• 01:38:57

  Positive Economic Impact on Communities

  • White Oak Passage is the largest private employer in the county
  • Majority of the people in the town are employed by White Oak Passage
  • White Oak Passage has helped employment rate by 128.75%
  • White Oak Passage brought high-speed internet to the town
• 01:51:08

  Raising animal agriculture is not inherently evil and can be beneficial

  • Harris opposes the idea of raising animal agriculture being inherently evil
  • Raising animal agriculture correctly can benefit the environment and society
  • If Bill Gates adopted Harris's practices, it would be a net positive for everyone
  • Harris hopes someone like Gates will realize the benefits of regenerative agriculture
• 01:52:14

  Carbon is not inherently bad, managing land properly can be a solution to climate change

  • Harris believes carbon is being villainized intentionally
  • The focus on carbon is preventing discussions about other elements of nature
  • Technology can't solve climate change, managing land properly can be a solution
  • Proper management of land is a natural way of addressing climate change
• 01:57:01

  Concerns about narratives surrounding the plant-based protein industry

  • Harris questions how the narrative about cattle destroying the earth caught on
  • The narrative surrounding carbon may be intentional as well
  • There's a lot of money to be made in the technology that takes carbon out of the air
  • Harris isn't worried about losing his customer base to the plant-based protein industry
• 02:03:37

  Local food and Greenwashing

  • Local food production has a lesser carbon footprint
  • Whole Foods Market is a big customer of the speaker but their relationship is cooling down
  • Greenwashing is the practice of big food advertising using misleading terms to convince consumers that their product is the same as local, sustainable and organic food products
• 02:08:53

  Inaccurate Numbers and Greenwashing

  • Whole Foods says their step rating system includes 2,451 farms and ranches but the speaker thinks the number of step five plus producers is much smaller than that
  • The speaker thinks Whole Foods is using misleading terms to make their products sound better than they actually are, a practice known as greenwashing
  • The speaker thinks Publix and other supermarkets are more honest in their marketing and sales practices compared to Whole Foods
• 02:15:09

  The Problem with Bullshit

  • The speaker doesn't care if Whole Foods stops doing business with them because they don't want to participate in greenwashing practices
  • The speaker prefers honesty and integrity in business practices even if it means more work and less profit
  • The speaker thinks the mission and values of the host's company are attractive and aligned with their own values
• 02:16:57

  Zero Waste Farming

  • White Oak Pastures operates at zero waste.
  • They slaughter around 100 cows, 40 hogs, 40 sheep and goats, and 1000 birds a week.
  • This generates about nine tons of nutrient waste, which they compost and use to fertilize the land.
  • The farm uses all parts of the animals, including the liver, heart, bones, and fat, to make a range of products like lard and tallow.
  • They also dehydrate organs like tracheas and penises to make pet treats.
• 02:18:55

  Solar Grazing

  • White Oak Pastures has partnered with a company called Silicon Ranch to graze their solar voltaic production land.
  • The CEO of Silicon Ranch initially didn't see the benefit of grazing for the land, but was convinced by the farm's explanation of natural systems and microbial cycles.
  • By grazing on the solar land, the farm will help with vegetation control and improve the land's health.
  • Solar grazing could become a new trend with the millions of acres being used for solar voltaic production.
  • This partnership also provides opportunities for underserved farms and farmers who don't have access to their own land.