#1893 - Will Harris
NaN minutesEpisode #1893
Will Harris
Will Harris is a fourth-generation cattleman and farmer. He's the owner of White Oak Pastures: a family farm utilizing regenerative agriculture and humane animal husbandry practices.
www.whiteoakpastures.com
Episode Timestamps
Introduction to White Oak Pastures
- Will Harris discusses his family's history with the farm and introduces the types of animals they raise.
Grain-fed Cows are Unnaturally Obese
- Will Harris explains how grain-fed cows are not natural and how they compare to his cows in terms of weight and lifespan.
Changing the model of farming
- The industrial commodity centralized model led to unintended consequences in animal welfare, which made the speaker change his farming model.
- Good animal welfare means providing an environment for animals to express instinctive behavior, but the CAFO confinement model doesn't allow that.
- The speaker changed the way he raised cattle 25 years ago, quitting feeding chicken litter and subtherapeutic antibiotics.
Misapplication of technology in agriculture
- Misapplication of technology makes agriculture destructive, with unintended and undesirable consequences.
- The speaker's farm employs technology, but reductive science technology may not lend itself to living systems.
- The speaker talks about the land side of the farm, highlighting the three most damaging things to soil: cultivation, chemical fertilizers, and pesticides.
Roundup and glyphosate
- Many people have Roundup in their blood (estimated at 80%)
- Some people argue that glyphosate in small amounts is not a big deal, but this is not well understood
- Glyphosate is not good for people, but the levels at which it becomes toxic are not well known
- Roundup was invented in the 70s and used until the late 90s
- Glyphosate is very effective, but practitioners are trying to move away from it due to the harm it causes
Battling invasive plants naturally
- Organic apple cider vinegar and soap are not very efficacious at killing an invasive plant called Tropical Soda Apple
- Glyphosate is very effective, but its harmful effects have caused practitioners to seek natural alternatives
- A professor at the University of Florida has brought in a beetle from Paraguay that eats only Tropical Soda Apple
- Cows, sheep, and goats are effective at killing kudzu, an invasive plant similar to Tropical Soda Apple
- Concerns about introducing an invasive beetle species that might migrate onto other foods and destroy other plants
Scaling up regenerative farming
- The challenge of scaling up regenerative farming to feed a large population living unnaturally
- The argument that we shouldn't have 18 million people in one area
- Most people in the regenerative space are not from an industrial farming background
- Practitioners of regenerative farming still face resistance from their communities
- The question of whether we need factory farming to meet the demands of a large population
Farming Methods for Earth's Carrying Capacity
- Debate about the best farming method for the Earth's carrying capacity
- Industrial farming's use of misused technology
- Comparison of industrialized and regenerative systems
- Advantages and disadvantages of both systems
Cost of Industrial versus Regenerative Farming
- Inputs of industrial model to take cost out of production
- Percentage of cost difference in regenerative model
- Example of cost of production for grass-fed beef and poultry
- Externalized costs of production
- Effects on taxpayers and the environment
Externalized expenses and the agricultural industry
- Farmers receive a small portion of the consumer dollar
- Big ag takes on the risks and provides services
- Consumers buy products, not animals
- Industrial agriculture is efficient but lacks resilience
The Savory Institute and complex systems
- Regenerative farming requires a shift from the industrial model
- Living systems are complex and cannot be reduced to simple input/output
- Industrial farming breaks the cycles of nature and produces less abundance
The impact of chemical fertilizers on water quality
- The neighbor's farm has used several hundred pounds of chemical fertilizers on corn.
- The chemical fertilizers are a contributing factor to the dark and muddy runoff from the neighbor's farm.
- The runoff also contains herbicide, insecticide, and fungicides.
- There are no financial consequences for these substances entering the water.
The impact of water runoff on Apalachicola Bay
- The water from the neighbor's farm flows into Apalachicola Bay.
- Apalachicola Bay was once famous for its oysters, but the area has banned oyster harvesting due to low numbers.
- Oysters purify water, and their absence has negatively impacted the fishery.
- The speaker's farm contributes clean water to the bay, while the neighbor's farm's runoff causes pollution.
The impact of organic matter on water retention
- The speaker's farm has achieved an organic matter level of 5% through animal impact.
- The organic matter allows the farm to absorb more water than the neighbor's farm, which has only a 0.5% organic matter level.
- The neighbor's farm is an example of industrial farming which results in decreased organic matter.
- The speaker's farm has a generational view and has invested in the improvement of the land over a long period.
Guardian Dogs Protect Poultry from Predators :
- Guardian dogs (Great Pyrenees, Okbosh, Anatolian Shepherds) protect the poultry from mammal predators like coyotes, foxes, etc.
- Because the predators are nocturnal, the dogs are trained to be nocturnal too.
- However, during the daytime, the birds are susceptible to attacks from raptors.
- Electric netting around the birds' area helped to keep the dogs in and reduced the likelihood of raptor attacks.
Industrial System's Impact on the Environment :
- The speaker believes that the industrial system's siloed, reductionist approach to science has negatively impacted complex cyclical systems.
- The speaker believes that the industrial system is a recent development in human history.
- The speaker describes how university education in animal nutrition and health focuses on separate disciplines and undermines the wholism of complex systems.
- The speaker argues that running whole systems is not taught enough in universities.
Industrialization and Centralization of Agriculture
- Industrialization of agriculture damaged land, water, and environment
- Centralization of agriculture impoverished rural America
- Commoditization also negatively impacted agriculture
- Alternative farming methods can re-enrich the land and local economy
Positive Economic Impact on Communities
- White Oak Passage is the largest private employer in the county
- Majority of the people in the town are employed by White Oak Passage
- White Oak Passage has helped employment rate by 128.75%
- White Oak Passage brought high-speed internet to the town
Raising animal agriculture is not inherently evil and can be beneficial
- Harris opposes the idea of raising animal agriculture being inherently evil
- Raising animal agriculture correctly can benefit the environment and society
- If Bill Gates adopted Harris's practices, it would be a net positive for everyone
- Harris hopes someone like Gates will realize the benefits of regenerative agriculture
Carbon is not inherently bad, managing land properly can be a solution to climate change
- Harris believes carbon is being villainized intentionally
- The focus on carbon is preventing discussions about other elements of nature
- Technology can't solve climate change, managing land properly can be a solution
- Proper management of land is a natural way of addressing climate change
Concerns about narratives surrounding the plant-based protein industry
- Harris questions how the narrative about cattle destroying the earth caught on
- The narrative surrounding carbon may be intentional as well
- There's a lot of money to be made in the technology that takes carbon out of the air
- Harris isn't worried about losing his customer base to the plant-based protein industry
Local food and Greenwashing
- Local food production has a lesser carbon footprint
- Whole Foods Market is a big customer of the speaker but their relationship is cooling down
- Greenwashing is the practice of big food advertising using misleading terms to convince consumers that their product is the same as local, sustainable and organic food products
Inaccurate Numbers and Greenwashing
- Whole Foods says their step rating system includes 2,451 farms and ranches but the speaker thinks the number of step five plus producers is much smaller than that
- The speaker thinks Whole Foods is using misleading terms to make their products sound better than they actually are, a practice known as greenwashing
- The speaker thinks Publix and other supermarkets are more honest in their marketing and sales practices compared to Whole Foods
The Problem with Bullshit
- The speaker doesn't care if Whole Foods stops doing business with them because they don't want to participate in greenwashing practices
- The speaker prefers honesty and integrity in business practices even if it means more work and less profit
- The speaker thinks the mission and values of the host's company are attractive and aligned with their own values
Zero Waste Farming
- White Oak Pastures operates at zero waste.
- They slaughter around 100 cows, 40 hogs, 40 sheep and goats, and 1000 birds a week.
- This generates about nine tons of nutrient waste, which they compost and use to fertilize the land.
- The farm uses all parts of the animals, including the liver, heart, bones, and fat, to make a range of products like lard and tallow.
- They also dehydrate organs like tracheas and penises to make pet treats.
Solar Grazing
- White Oak Pastures has partnered with a company called Silicon Ranch to graze their solar voltaic production land.
- The CEO of Silicon Ranch initially didn't see the benefit of grazing for the land, but was convinced by the farm's explanation of natural systems and microbial cycles.
- By grazing on the solar land, the farm will help with vegetation control and improve the land's health.
- Solar grazing could become a new trend with the millions of acres being used for solar voltaic production.
- This partnership also provides opportunities for underserved farms and farmers who don't have access to their own land.