#1640 - Josh Rogin

Episode Timestamps

• 00:00:00

  Love for Watches and Ramen - The Story of Watch the Ramen

  • Introduction to the concept of Watch the Ramen - a combination of the love for watches and Japanese ramen in an Instagram account
  • Discussion about the Admiral Pogue's Seiko Moon watch being the first chronograph worn in space, contrary to common belief
  • Exploration of the origin and growth of the Instagram account, bringing together the ramen and watch communities
• 00:03:28

  Insights on Japanese Culture and Society

  • Analysis of the deep-rooted history and traditions of Japan compared to Western nations
  • Discussion on the communal aspect of Japanese society due to geographical constraints
  • Observations on Japan's approach to consensus, discipline, and respect influenced by Confucianism and martial arts
• 00:09:17

  Early Career in Journalism and Time Spent in Japan

  • Narrative about starting as a journalist for the Japanese newspaper Asahi Shinbun in D.C.
  • Experience of working as a Pentagon reporter and engaging with Donald Rumsfeld
  • Transition from Japanese journalism to American media and breaking stories with acquired skills
• 00:16:14

  Unplanned Career Progression and Philosophy

  • Reflection on the unconventional path to journalism and career advancement
  • Discussion on seizing opportunities and being authentic in life
  • Advising on navigating life without detailed planning but with perseverance
• 00:17:59

  Finding Passion in Work and Career Flexibility

  • Discussion on the importance of finding a career you love and are passionate about
  • Personal story contrasting different career approaches between the speaker and his wife in the field of journalism
  • Reflecting on the speaker's career in journalism, his adaptability, and openness to explore other paths if needed
• 00:19:00

  Unexpected Encounter and Altercation with Comedian Dan Ninan

  • Narrative of an incident where the speaker was punched by comedian Dan Ninan during a comedy show
  • Description of the escalating situation involving live-tweeting the altercation and media attention
  • Account of the aftermath including legal actions and attempts of bribery
• 00:27:02

  Uncovering the True Story and Exposing a Fraudster in Comedy

  • Joe Rogan reveals a story involving deceit and dishonesty within the comedy industry
  • Discussion about a comedian who lied about his age and persona in public
  • Insight into the consequences of fraudulent behavior in the comedy world
• 00:28:45

  Celebrating Underrated Comedians and Their Unique Talent

  • Reflections on the underappreciated brilliance of certain comedians in the industry
  • Praise for a comedian's exceptional talent and humor despite lack of mainstream recognition
  • Observations on the dynamics of fame and recognition in stand-up comedy
• 00:35:45

  Investigating the Lab Accident Theory

  • The argument to investigate the lab accident theory is made without pushing it as the definitive origin of the virus
  • Discussion on the lack of progress in investigations and the global disinterest in uncovering the origins of the virus
  • Introduction to the chaotic political landscape surrounding the pandemic's origin and the reluctance to address the issue
• 00:36:55

  Lab Accident Theory and Global Response

  • Description of the potential laboratory origins near the Wuhan Institute of Virology and the safety concerns raised by US diplomats
  • Highlighting the significance of leaked diplomatic cables and the emergence of the lab accident theory in public discourse
  • The involvement of scientists in gain-of-function research and the controversy surrounding the lab's potential role in the pandemic
• 00:45:28

  Lab Origin of the COVID-19 Virus and Cover-up

  • Discussion on investigating the lab theory amidst the natural spillover theory of COVID-19 origin
  • Critique of the WHO investigation team's conflicts of interest with the lab being investigated
  • Debate on circumstantial evidence pointing towards the lab theory and Fauci's involvement in gain of function research
• 00:50:54

  Debates on Pandemic Prevention Approaches and Lack of Dissent

  • Comparison of research allocation towards virus examination and therapeutic development
  • Different scientific schools of thought on preventing pandemics - surveillance vs. gaining virus knowledge
  • Discussion on lack of dissent in virology community due to funding structure and Fauci's influential role
• 00:55:25

  Debate on the Origin of COVID-19 and Conflicting Theories

  • Discussions on the lab accident theory and natural origin theory of the COVID-19 pandemic
  • Concerns about confirmation bias and the need for a rational conversation on the crisis
  • Reflections on the arguments and evidence for both theories, including the role of the Chinese government in covering up information
• 00:56:38

  Manipulation of Information and Distractions by the Chinese Government

  • Exploration of how the Chinese government manipulates information and distracts from the investigation into the virus's origin
  • Critique of the 'Popsicle theory' proposed by the Chinese government as a distraction tactic
  • Overview of the Chinese government's strategies to control the narrative and avoid accountability in the pandemic
• 01:04:31

  Implications of the Lab Accident Theory Involving China

  • Discussion on the potential implications if the lab accident theory regarding the origin of the virus is proven true
  • Exploration of how the lab accident theory not only implicates China but also raises concerns about the US's role in sponsoring the research
  • Analysis of the broader US-China relationship and the historical stance of US foreign policy towards China since 1972
• 01:05:33

  Challenges in Scientific Cooperation with China

  • Overview of scientific cooperation as a cornerstone in US-China relations and its role in fostering engagement and liberalization
  • Examination of the Chinese government's approach towards cooperation and implications for US interests
  • Insights into the intricate workings of the Chinese government and its impact on scientific collaboration in light of the pandemic
• 01:13:21

  The Intelligence Failure and Lack of Investigation into Chinese Labs

  • Discussion on the intelligence community's failure to anticipate the pandemic stemming from Chinese labs
  • Exploration of the lack of proper investigation into risky research conducted in Chinese lab networks
  • Critique of the global response plan to increase gain of function research despite potential risks
• 01:16:35

  Challenges in Journalism, Confirmation Bias, and Gain of Function Research

  • Insight into the challenges faced by journalists in admitting mistakes and navigating confirmation bias
  • Concerns raised about the $1.2 billion global viral project expanding gain of function research
  • Discussion on the need for constructive disagreement and willingness to rethink assumptions
• 01:23:01

  Discussion on Virus Research, Treatments, and mRNA Vaccines

  • Exploration of virus research focusing on virulent strains and understanding gained
  • Mention of the mRNA vaccines and their origin from a DARPA funded defense program
  • Debate on the efficacy of focusing on developing treatments simultaneously with research
• 01:24:48

  Debate on the Lab Accident Theory and Political Assertions

  • Discussion on the claims made by Pompeo regarding a lab accident
  • Confirmation of suspicious activity in the lab by the Biden administration
  • Analysis of media bias and political motivations in reporting on the lab accident theory
• 01:33:04

  Influence of the Chinese Communist Party on American Institutions

  • Discussion on the systematic influence exerted by the Chinese Communist Party on American institutions over several decades
  • Example of the NBA scandal where a single tweet in support of Hong Kong protesters led to severe repercussions and backlash from China
  • Analysis of how American entities, including the NBA, struggle to navigate the complex landscape of dealing with CCP and the repercussions of offending the party
• 01:38:18

  Economic Entanglement with China and the Dilemma of Standing Against CCP Practices

  • Exploration of the extensive economic ties between American industries like sports, Hollywood, and tech companies with China and the implications of self-censorship and compliance with CCP demands
  • Discussion on how companies face backlash and potential destruction of business in China for questioning human rights issues like forced labor, indicating the power dynamics at play
  • Analysis of the challenges companies face in standing up to CCP due to economic dependencies and the need for a more cohesive strategy involving government collaboration and diplomatic solutions
• 01:43:29

  Discussion on Chinese Influence and the Need for a National Conversation

  • Exploration of the historical mismanagement of the US-China relationship by 'China hands'
  • Need for a broader conversation among Americans about the impact of Chinese policies on daily life
  • Challenges in having this discussion due to Washington's current state and siloed discussions in various sectors
• 01:48:09

  Methods of Chinese Influence: Money and Confucius Institutes

  • Explanation of how Chinese Communist Party uses financial donations to influence academic institutions
  • Overview of the United Front system and the use of proxies to channel funds into various sectors
  • Discussion on the role of Confucius Institutes as cultural centers and potential hubs for espionage
• 01:53:44

  Privacy Intrusion and Espionage Suspicions

  • Joe Rogan recounts a story of feeling like the US government was spying on him, leading to involvement with Homeland Security
  • Discussion about a Russian acquaintance and past experiences with Russian cigarettes
  • Conversation about encounters with FBI regarding potential Russian spy connections
• 01:55:24

  Global Relations, Free Speech, and Education Ethics

  • Exploration of complexities in U.S.-China relations concerning student influences and academic institutions
  • Discussion on the importance of protecting free speech in educational settings and considering diverse viewpoints
  • Reflections on the need for constructive debate and tolerance amidst differing ideologies in society
• 02:04:05

  Impact of Ideologies on Society and the Influence of Teams and Factions

  • Discussion on how ideologies divide people into camps leading to team mentality
  • Examination of the lack of time for in-depth research leading to misconceptions and labeling
  • Exploration of the influence of incentives on individuals in journalism, corporations, and colleges
• 02:06:34

  Nuanced Views on Politics, Media, and World Affairs

  • Joe Rogan's stance on criticizing both sides of the political spectrum
  • Insight into the lack of nuance in public discourse and the need for constructive disagreement
  • Focus on the plight of Uighur Muslims in China, discussing surveillance, persecution, and propaganda
• 02:15:14

  Journalists' Encounter with Camps and Forced Detention

  • American journalists exposed camps in Xinjiang and faced repercussions with family members detained
  • Young woman's unjust detainment and ordeal in a Chinese camp due to innocuous actions
  • Forced labor practices and forced separation from families as part of the systematic abuse
• 02:21:12

  Economic Complicity and American Investments

  • Discussion on American companies inadvertently funding Chinese companies responsible for human rights abuses
  • Implications of American investments in maligned Chinese companies on issues like concentration camps
  • The intricate relationship between Wall Street investments and the perpetuation of human rights violations in China
• 02:25:13

  Competition with China: Economic, Ideological, and Technological

  • Discussion on the competition with China focusing on economic, ideological, and technological aspects
  • Critique of the role of Wall Street in the competition and their reluctance to address market issues
  • Exploration of the need for effective responses such as imposing tariffs and considering decoupling in certain industries
• 02:27:15

  Trade Relations and Tech Industry Challenges

  • Analysis of the complexities in trade relations and failures in the Trump administration's approaches
  • Discourse on the handling of bans on Chinese tech companies like TikTok and the underlying issues in U.S.-China relations
  • Call for nuanced discussions and collaborative solutions amidst the broken state of Washington post-Trump era
• 02:35:30

  TikTok Controversy and Huawei Ban

  • Discussion on the failed attempt to IPO TikTok and the subsequent legal battles between the US and China
  • Insight into the Huawei ban and the Trump administration's approach to discouraging its use globally
  • Explanation of the complex dynamics involving national security, Wall Street interests, and Chinese influence in technology
• 02:37:38

  Challenges with CCP's Strategy and Influence

  • Exploration of how the Chinese Communist Party integrates various elements like industry, politics, criminality, and diplomacy into its strategies
  • Concerns raised about the interplay between corruption, technology, and espionage in the context of Chinese influence
  • Importance of developing proactive and value-based alternatives to counter the CCP's growing power and influence
• 02:45:35

  The Real Fight Against the CCP: Internal Focus and Global Cooperation

  • Emphasis on addressing CCP's actions within own borders, schools, markets, and companies
  • Highlight on the importance of cooperating with allies facing similar issues
  • Exploration of scenarios from convincing the CCP to limit ambitions to worst-case outcomes
• 02:46:57

  Preserving Engagement with Chinese People while Upholding Principles

  • Discussion on standing up against self-censorship and maintaining individual liberties
  • Observations on the impact of Chinese influence on Hollywood and other industries
  • Importance of engaging with Chinese people while navigating challenges posed by the CCP's control