#1175 - Chris Kresser & Dr. Joel Kahn
NaN minutesEpisode #1175
Chris Kresser, M.S., L.Ac is a globally recognized leader in the fields of ancestral health, Paleo nutrition, and functional and integrative medicine. Dr. Joel Kahn is one of the world’s top cardiologists and believes that plant-based nutrition is the most powerful source of preventative medicine on the planet.
Watch the full episode of #1175 - Chris Kresser & Dr. Joel Kahn.
Episode Timestamps
Dr. Joel Kahn - Legendary Vegan Cardiologist
- Dr. Joel Kahn, a 42-year vegan and renowned cardiologist, shares his journey from Motown to Texas and back to Michigan.
- Founder of several plant-based restaurants and a preventive cardiology practice, Dr. Kahn is a passionate advocate for plant-based medicine.
- Addressing the importance of lifestyle and diet in preventing heart disease, Dr. Kahn emphasizes the need for personalized approaches in medicine.
Chris Crescer - Transition from Macrobiotic Veganism
- Chris Crescer, co-director of California Center for Functional Medicine, discusses his shift from macrobiotic veganism due to personal health challenges.
- Advocating for individualized dietary approaches, Chris highlights the diversity in dietary requirements among individuals.
- Rejecting the notion of a one-size-fits-all diet, Chris emphasizes the importance of context and quality of foods in nutrition research and epidemiology studies.
Studying Old Healthy People & Problems with Epidemiology
- Chris enjoys studying ancient societies and Joel focuses on studying the elderly in modern environments like blue zones.
- Epidemiology involves observational studies which have inherent problems like data collection relying on memory.
- Major issues with nutritional epidemiology include inaccurate data collection, healthy user bias, and low relative risks.
Challenges in Nutritional Epidemiology Studies
- Data collection challenges in nutritional observational studies due to reliance on memory & self-reported calorie intakes.
- Healthy user bias complicates interpreting results as behaviors like smoking or low physical activity are linked with dietary choices.
- Relative risks in nutrition studies are often too low to be distinguishable from chance, undermining the credibility of the data.
Origin of Paleo Movement and its Trends
- Lauren Curnadein published a book on paleo diet in 2002 which initially didn't gain popularity but later saw a surge in 2010, marking the beginning of a relatively new movement.
- Discussion on differentiation between paleo eaters and other meat eaters in epidemiology studies and the varying risks associated.
- Advisory on the relative risk and the preceding data shortage due to the newness of the movement.
Comparative Lifespan Studies on Vegetarians, Vegans, and Omnivores
- Comparative lifespan studies conducted on Seventh Day Adventists, focusing on vegetarians, vegans, and omnivores.
- Important findings from four studies comparing health risks and longevity among different dietary groups.
- Meta-analyses consolidating various studies concluding no significant difference in lifespan between vegetarians and omnivores.
Total Mortality and Meat Consumption
- Emphasis on total mortality as the primary endpoint in discussions about interventions
- Questioning the lack of evidence showing lifespan advantage for vegetarians or vegans
- Examining the risk factors associated with processed meat consumption
Mechanisms and Context for Processed Meat and Cancer
- Exploring how processed meat causes cancer through various mechanisms
- Highlighting the importance of context, such as the impact of chlorophyll-rich vegetables on reducing harmful compounds
- Stressing the significance of pairing meat consumption with vegetables for health benefits
Zoe Harcomb and the Truth About Dietary Cholesterol and Saturated Fat
- Zoe Harcomb's research supports there is no good evidence connecting dietary cholesterol and saturated fat to heart disease.
- Studies and meta-analyses suggest no significant relationship between saturated fat intake and cardiovascular disease.
- US federal government removed restrictions on total fat and dietary cholesterol based on research findings.
Johnny Inidis Challenges Nutritional Research Norms
- Johnny Inidis criticizes the current state of nutritional epidemiology and calls for radical reform.
- Research indicates no clear support for high consumption of polyunsaturated fatty acids and low consumption of saturated fats.
- Meta-analyses demonstrate low-carb diets high in saturated fats can lead to weight loss and improved cardiovascular risk factors.
Saturated Fat and Heart Disease in the 1940s and 1950s
- Discussion about the relevance of epidemiology studies from the 1940s and 1950s.
- The relationship between dietary saturated fat and heart disease over a 50-year follow-up period.
- Critique on studies linking saturated fat in diet with heart disease.
Evolution of Nutrition Science and the Impact on Dietary Recommendations
- Transition from observational studies to randomized controlled trials in nutrition research.
- Recent meta-analyses showing benefits of low-carb diets over traditional dietary approaches.
- Discrepancies in earlier studies and the need for updated scientific evidence.
Debate on Saturated Fat and Cholesterol Relationship
- 21 international societies advocate lowering saturated fat in the diet to improve public health.
- Historical epidemiology studies connect low saturated fat consumption to higher cholesterol levels and heart attack risks.
- Discussion on the significance of old studies versus new evidence from randomized controlled trials.
Controversy Around LDL Cholesterol and Heart Disease Risk
- Research on low LDL cholesterol levels influencing survival rates and heart attack risks.
- Mendelian randomization study emphasizing the importance of maintaining low LDL levels throughout life.
- Debate on saturated fat's impact on cholesterol levels and its relationship to heart diseases.
Discussion on Saturated Fat and Cardiovascular Health
- Critique on the inconsistency in the use of epidemiology to support arguments against saturated fat intake
- Review of various studies highlighting flaws in meta-analyses
- Contrast between different dietary patterns on cardiovascular risk markers such as low carb, low GI, Mediterranean, and high protein diets
Debating Saturated Fat and Cardiovascular Risk Factors
- Analysis of the gold standard evidence - randomized controlled trials and meta-analyses
- Comparison of different nutritional approaches and their impact on cardiovascular health
- Contradictory viewpoints on the relationship between saturated fat intake and mortality risk
Saturated Fat and Heart Health: Finland vs. Crete
- In the 1970s, Finland had the highest heart attack rate globally, while Crete had the lowest despite both consuming 40% of calories from fat.
- Intervention in Finland to lower saturated fat content led to an 80% drop in heart attacks.
- Biochemistry, epidemiology, and randomized trials support the impact of saturated fat on heart disease risk.
Epidemiology and Lifestyle Factors: Dietary Influence on Lifespan
- Healthy behaviors like not smoking, balanced diet, and regular exercise can increase lifespan by 13 years.
- Challenges in isolating single variables in observational research highlight limitations.
- Mormons' lower mortality rates despite eating animal foods reflect the complexities of dietary impact on health span.
Controversial Theory about Hooper Cochran Database 2015 & Importance of Saturated Fat Limitation
- Hooper Cochran database 2015 and metabolic ward studies are under question for being observational rather than based on rigorous trials.
- Chowdery meta analysis is criticized for including individuals on Lipitor, skewing the results about the correlation between blood cholesterol and heart disease risk.
- Importance of limiting saturated fat intake endorsed by major medical societies worldwide.
Critique on Scientific Integrity and Conflicts of Interest in Nutritional Guidelines
- Discussion on the evolution of scientific understanding dismissing claims of conspiracy theories.
- Criticism of organizations like American Heart Association and American Diabetic Association for potential conflicts of interest with Big Food funding.
- Emphasis on examining scientific integrity without delving too deeply into conspiracy territory.
Discussion on USDA Guidelines and Healthy Diets
- Joel questions the mistake in the USDA Guidelines regarding fat requirements
- Debate on the influence of saturated fat on heart disease and mortality
- Emphasis on the need for clarity on dietary recommendations
Impact of Dietary Choices on Health and Aging Pathways
- Interpretations of different dietary approaches by John McDougal and Chris Crescer
- Exploration of dietary impact on lifespan and anti-aging pathways
- Discussion on the combination of saturated fats and sugars affecting aging pathways
High Methionine Diet and Aging - Study by Morgan Levine at Harvard
- Meat rich in methionine activates mTOR and IGF-1, strong factors in aging
- Animal protein has different amino acid mix than plant protein
- Studies led by Morgan Levine at Harvard show plant protein to be better than animal protein in terms of cancer and heart risks
Impact of Animal Protein on Mortality and Cancer - Selma, Taz, and Morgan Levine Study
- Animal protein associated with 75% increase in death and 400% increase in cancer
- Contrastingly, plant-based protein does not show similar impact
- Scientific emphasis on real outcomes like total mortality and specific disease risks rather than just mechanisms
Debunking the Cholesterol Myth: Analyzing Saturated Fat Intake vs. Heart Attacks
- Debate between Chris and Joel regarding the impact of saturated fat on cholesterol levels and heart attacks.
- Large studies show no significant relationship between saturated fat intake and cardiovascular disease.
- Discussion on the importance of examining randomized controlled trials and meta-analyses to understand the true impact of dietary factors.
Unveiling the Reality: Saturated Fat, Cholesterol, and Heart Health Dynamics
- Analysis of studies revealing a lack of correlation between saturated fat consumption and cholesterol levels in a significant percentage of individuals.
- Explanation of the complexities of cholesterol absorption and its effects on individual health based on genetics and diet.
- Debate on the relevance of outdated studies and the need for recent evidence to shape dietary guidelines.
PCSK9 and New Treatment Discoveries
- Introduction of PCSK9 protein and its impact on cholesterol levels
- Development of antibody drugs targeting PCSK9 for cholesterol reduction
- Implications of PCSK9 levels on disease risk and longevity
TMAO and Its Role in Heart Health
- Discovery of TMAO as a marker for cardiovascular health
- Association of TMAO with dietary components like red meat and eggs
- Discussion on gut microbiome's influence on TMAO levels
Discussion on Fish Consumption and Heart Health
- Fish consumption is not correlated with heart disease and is actually associated with healthier hearts.
- Debate on the implications of fish consumption in comparison to egg yolk and meat.
- Explanation of the TMAO process and its correlation with atherosclerosis.
Controversy Surrounding TMAO and Its Sources
- Discussion on the levels of TMAO in different food sources like fish, egg yolk, and red meat.
- Debate on the health implications of TMAO from different sources.
- Arguments for and against the significance of TMAO in relation to heart disease.
Discussion on Fish and Diabetes Relationship
- Meta-analysis does not support the inverse association of fish intake with diabetes
- Debate on flawed studies associating fish consumption with type 2 diabetes
- Importance of considering various factors such as protein, fat, mercury, PCBs when studying fish consumption
Benefits of Seafood Consumption in Reducing Cardiovascular Disease
- Eating seafood reduces cardiovascular disease incidence significantly
- Plausible benefits from essential fatty acids found in fish
- Fish as a great source of bioavailable protein and selenium
Edis and Johnny Discuss Nutritional Associations
- Edis highlights the complexity of how eating behaviors are linked to health through various social and behavioral factors.
- Research shows the impact of social relationships on health is significant, even surpassing the risk posed by smoking.
- Lack of studies adequately controlling for all factors makes it challenging to draw conclusive insights on nutritional associations.
Debating the Inclusion of Animal Foods in Diet
- Discussion on the importance of gut microbiome for overall health.
- Considering the nutrient density and bioavailability of animal foods in the diet.
- Exploring the implications of different diets on lifespan and disease risk, emphasizing the need to balance nutrients from both animal and plant sources.
Vegetarian & Vegan Nutrient Controversy Discussed by Chris
- B12 synthesis in labs, preferred choice is Methylcobalamin
- Contrary to belief, essential nutrients can be met through vegan ways
- Issues with supplementation, B12 deficiency marker discussed
Plant-Based Diets, Homocysteine Levels & Nutrient Efficiency
- Higher homocysteine levels in vegans due to B12 deficiency
- Risk of cardiovascular diseases associated with plant-based diets
- Iodine deficiency in vegans and paleo diets addressed
Vitamin C Controversy - Linus Pauling and High Dosage Debate
- Linus Pauling's association with Vitamin C and its numerous benefits to the body.
- Discussion on the absorption of Vitamin C at different dosages and in combination with other food items.
- Debate on the theory of competition between glucose and Vitamin C in high meat diets.
Risk and Uncertainties of Extreme Diets - Jordan Peterson's Case
- Concerns regarding long-term safety and monitoring of extreme diets like all-meat diets.
- The importance of tracking health parameters like carotid and coronary health in extreme diet scenarios.
- Discussion on nutrient deficiencies and the potential risks of prolonged dietary experiments.
Plant-Based Diet vs. Nutrivor Diet - Sarah Ballantine and Dr. Lester Morrison
- Sarah Ballantine introduces Nutrivor diet as a whole foods diet with fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, starchy plants, and animal foods
- Comparison between Nutrivor and paleo diets, highlighting the inclusivity of Nutrivor
- Discussions on the criticism of the paleolithic diet and the importance of evolutionary perspective in generating hypotheses
Reversing Heart Disease with Plant-Based Diet - Dr. Lester Morrison's Study
- Overview of Dr. Lester Morrison's study in Los Angeles in 1948 showing the impact of plant-based diets on heart disease
- Tripling of blood flow due to diet-induced decrease in plaque in heart arteries
- Medicare's recognition and support for plant-based diets for advanced heart patients
Patrick Bubamian and Nick Delgado: Plant-based Super Athletes
- Patrick Bubamian, a big stocky German powerlifter, holds the world record for powerlifting and has been plant-based his whole life
- Nick Delgado is another example of a super athlete without animal products
- Diaz transitioned to a diet of fish and vegetables, emphasizing the benefits of a whole food plant-based diet
Alex Kaceres and Scott Jurick: Athletes Thriving on Plant-based Diets
- Alex Kaceres, a world-class fighter, and Griff Whalen, a former Miami Dolphins tight end, follow a vegan diet
- Scott Jurick set a world record for the Appalachian Trail by eating beans, showcasing exceptional athletic fitness level
- The segment concludes on the benefits of a whole food-based diet over the standard American diet